Call the meeting to order of those so it was part planning commission meeting of
ours nineteen twenty fifteen please call the roll link are here Johnson minutes and
here are these feeling Richard person here called Robertson here Joe tell
of each. Year thank you next item is approval of the minutes
from August fifth twenty fifteen. Questions.
I'll second moved and seconded all those that favor say aye. Opposed
OK we have to public hearings this evening. On the first item
is the conditional use permit for excavation for the outdoor recreation complex at
the rec center. Thank you Mr
members of the commission the application before you today to submitted by the City
St Louis Park Mr Jason as old as the recreation center manager he is also the
project manager and he is in attendance tonight to answer any questions you have
about the project itself otherwise will continue with the review of the conditions
permit which is to excavate approximately seven thousand cubic yards of soil the
site for the construction of an outdoor recreation center the location of the
property is thirty seven hundred Monterey drive take
a look at the aerial photo we do show the site I'm here on the south side of thirty
six St It is of course the recreation center property which in clue director should
center itself and our fourth park the outdoor recreation center that is proposed to
be constructed will be located on the west side of the recreation center where the
skate park is currently located the property is guided in the comprehensive plan as
park an open space it is owned park and open space and it is part of the Wolf Park
neighborhood. Well we do right now is just Pozen talk
a little bit about the complex itself while the kind of the construction of the
complex is not does not require conditions permit or any other type of review by
the Planning Commission to council the optician again before each name is
a condition is just to excavate approximately seven thousand cubic yards of
material but or take
a moment to review the complex just to kind of frame the the project itself
so this is
a view of the complex looking south from thirty six streets and in front of the
recreation center after
a lot is the recreation center itself now after the very right is that there is six
park permits kind of shaded in and in between and that is the project we are
proposing an addition to the recreation center which comprises of two levels on the
lower level we have locker room storage areas and up above there is
a positive area the ice rink itself which is the main feature of the project is
located in the center does have
a covered canopy over the ice rink but again no walls or anything like that it is
open air to the sides and then between the ice rink and the apartments to the west
there is
a small parking lot so looking at it from above again we see there is six to eight
after the top of the page recreation center to the right swimming pool to the south
the additions located in this area the ice rink in the middle and in the parking
lot after the West and again kind of broadening out
a little bit and look at it in context of the aerial photo where the rec center
swimming pool thirty six Street the project is outlined in the white area here now
after the worst we start to see basically the easterly wall of the thirty six parks
apartment building and we're there to do is take
a moment Pozen look at that area right now. This is
a street view taken from thirty six Street looking south again thirty six Park
apartments after the right. The entry to the rec center properties here the skate
park is located in the center of the screen and then here is
a hill leading up to the rec center which is where the ice rink will be located
let's talk
a little bit about the buffer zone area between the apartment building and the
proposed complex we see there is
a trail that leads from thirty six Street back to the wealth Park and from that
trail the gray does go up to
a retaining wall which is part of the thirty six Park apartment complex the area's
primarily mowed landscape area but there are several large mature trees that help
with the screening from the residential area to the west and to the skate park to
the east as part of the project we are proposing to keep
those existing trees I saw on the previous view and Hance the buffer with more
landscaping. Besides edition of several shrubs. For study purposes we are
proposing to add ten conifer trees and six deciduous trees typically in
a project we see conifer trees in the six foot eight foot range the trees propose
we planted here ten feet tall so we're bigger than we typically see Likewise with
the deciduous trees we typically see but we'll have inches in diameter for calipers
they're proposing three inches and the purpose for that is to get
a jump on the screen and buffer in between the apartment building and the parking
lot for this complex So again we have sixteen trees being planted in here addition
to that the typical landscaping trees that we see on the islands and landscaping in
the parking lot itself plus some additional trees around the parking lot. Between
the ice rink and the parking that we're seeing several foundation plantings.
I took an exhibit from the apartment complex which shows
a profile of the apartment complex itself and the rec center property to the
east and the advantage of this is the shows the great change from the trail that we
showed earlier in the street view up to the deck level of the apartment complex and
what we see in this is that first half the distance between the trail and that
patio level is sixty one feet. The great change is eight feet nine inches from the
paddy from the trail up to the top there to new Moss who got a bit of
a grade change which I think worked see vanish at the apartment complex for
screening. And then of course in the series here are the large trees that exist
today along with the proposed trees as part of this project
so I'd like to know switch gears and talk
a little bit about the excavation and some of these exhibits are in your. Packet
that was delivered to you early but will start out with the existing conditions
again we're thirty six street to the north recreation centers after the right of
the page the skate park is located here the drive file from three sixty eight into
the park area and then of course the hill that we talked about that will be
excavated for the X.
Ice rink stormwater will be accommodated for the site by
using underground tanks located beneath the parking lot the stormwater is sized. To
take on more than just this site so there will be
a credit for the recreation center for future improvements the whole road itself is
pretty simple utilizing thirty sixty to one hundred yes
vision details include twelve days of grading for the site approximately seven
thousand cubic yards of material to be removed the whole in will take place over
five days and will involve about one hundred trucks per day as city code does allow
construction activity from the hours of seven AM to ten pm on weekdays and nine AM
to ten pm on holidays and weekends. A neighborhood meeting was conducted on
Wednesday August twelfth there were four people in attendance at that meeting and
a couple of questions and concerns were raised. Mostly about the complex itself not
so much about the conditions permit that's for you tonight. But those two on the
screen lighting impacts to thirty six park
a lighting plan was submitted to the city that's currently being reviewed and will
make
a just with adjustments as necessary to that plan. And also noise impacts to surrounding
properties you'll notice in the recommendations to you tonight that there is
a condition that a regulator may be attached to the P.A.
System going back to this project you'll see that again it's an open
air facility. So there may be some concerns that the P.A.
System utilized in the right area may violate the noise limits at the property line
so the regulator would prevent that no matter what they do in here for the activity
they would not be allowed to get so loud as to violate city code at that time
so based on that review staff is recommending approval of the commissioner's permit
to allow the excavation of approximately seven thousand cubic yards of material
with the committee with the conditions as recommended by staff that the conditions
are included in your staff report and they're pretty standard for this type of
activity there are some exhibits that are required to be adhered to again the
regulator being installed on the outer sound system to prevent the system from
exceeding the maximums allowed by code and that all necessary permits peer applied
for and received we do have the truck route to use in. Thirty six street and would
have an entirely hundred and finally that the activity the streets be cleaned
during the holiday activities as I mentioned just now is all to the recreation
center manager is here to answer any questions for you other net I'll take any
questions that you have for me Mr Chair Mr Johnson motion. Security
I missed the first three or four sentences of your presentation as I was reading
something else here and how did this project how does this project get approved
it's approved how did it or it's going to be approved in this is just I know this
is just for the conditional use permit but the project so is in the park an open
space district and Recreation Center is
a permitted use in that district so this project is loved by
a building permit only so it's going through that process plans haven't been
submitted for
a building permit yet. But it has been reviewed by the city council in study
sessions and as I mentioned earlier there was
a neighborhood meeting for the project itself really for the condition is permanent
but it was not too early for to come out and see what's being built I was at study
session where this was presented by Eric to the city council and we had an awful
lot of hockey people there. Where are you coming of up
with the use of this particular So we're talking about this space can also be used
for other activities such as craft fairs pet Expos dog training and so forth
farmers' markets I heard that mentioned in passing at that study session but the
focus to me it looked like first of all they were looking for dollar some of the
city is that correct is the city contributing to the cost of this order or the city
is contributing to the cost of that and how much are the city contributing so I
would have to defer that to Jason for don't teach it so we can ask him that
whenever whenever Not right now but whenever the chair lets him OK So that would be
a question and then. But I heard
a lot of that this would mainly be used for sports of whatever kind so if we've got
so not soccer but I think lacrosse was match and hockey and so forth so I have some
concerns about that. Because we've already the rectory direct centers are already
predominately you know hockey hockey hockey and I don't see much it's difficult to
get skate time over there for your family and so for
a soft Those are my concerns about the city spending money on additional additional
dollars for. A facility that's going to be able to be used by
all residents for the most parts far as I can tell unless there's some kind of
provision we could and this is not the time for but I wanted in the minutes
basically that I really think that. There needs to be.
Preference given also for these different types of activities OK.
Anybody else you're Herbert Mr Chairman. Gary I have
a couple of questions here because it does not look as if there was going to be an
opportunity for him put out
a further time so again even though this is just regarding the movement of
soil. So first well I guess no particular order was the
requirements for parking determined was it only by the space available or was it
determined by some kind of
a formula as to the number of parking spaces that would be needed for any or all of
the activities here I mean. The parking is
a look at all the parking that's available for the rec center which is course the
main parking lot of the rec center there are provided additional parking as noted
on this drawing here between the hockey area and the apparent building to the west
of the rec center also has overfull parking located on the north side of thirty
sixty at the mall or US property or the property and also the rec center does
benefit from parking arrangements over access and grand so there is ample parking
for the rec center for all the activities that occur at the rec center sell for
a lot of park and. So based on what I
heard from you I'm going interpret that this was the amount of space that was
available for parking. At this particular spot but there is sufficient parking
available in the media here there is sufficient parking and the parking lot is
constructed to the west of the facility is added because you know there is space
for parking over there and it is more convenient but also you can directly access
site through the rec center or walking around either one so if you park at the main
parking lot you can walk through the facility through the rec center to get to the
so you don't have to walk around it so that parking is still convenient and
specially during the winter months if you don't want to walk around the building so
converse Lay I'm hearing you talking from here into the rec center but also
obviously from the rec center to here there's a page there's going to be
a pass through yes OK Next question that they have this what the potential
hours of operation here I know that the indoor hockey rink is going on
a significant basis perhaps not twenty four by seven but certainly it opens early
in this week what are the expected usage hours here both for hockey and for
other activities. I will have to defer the question to Jason there are some
limitations in code pertaining to Noise and things like that that they will have to
hear just how is it into the later hours that will come into play but otherwise as
far as the general activities OK the safest place and put that on your list and
when you come up with talk to you about it. The next issue is.
I guess the cell phone system and the sound system even though there is
a governance of
a loudspeaker system certainly it would appear as if there are going to be
audiences there that will be sharing talking what ever at the time and certainly
that's not controllable by a P.
Ph system are all of the spectator locations going to be on the west side of
this rink So certainly the the vocalizations will be carrying up towards the
building perhaps we'll get some bounce back off of the rec center but are all the
areas where there will be spectators going to be directed away from the
apartment buildings here the bleachers are located on the east side of the rink
right here between the addition and the rink itself so they are facing towards the
west towards the apartment building. Going by experience with other facilities
other school facilities football stadiums for example typically the complaints that
we get are primarily from the P.A.
System mostly granted the cheering and such can get loud so there's the music and
the announcements that have to be louder than the cheering to be heard that we get
the most complaints from OK well I am from one of the reasons why I'm asking these
questions is that. It is in my community and I was the president of the
association when they were developing various areas and there has been continuous
complaints not just of the PH systems but the fact that the amount of noise that's
generated by the fan base spectators so. Next thing
and this is I'm interested in the lighting. To start with the parking lots do we
have an anticipation that these are going to be energy efficient L.E.D.
Lights with some consideration for avoiding light pollution or what are
we faced with in terms of the parking lot itself the lights in the parking
lot and on the tests that building outside our L.E.D.
. Fixtures OK that's efficient and then.
There appears to be some type of
a covering over this open area is that going to be
a type of fabric that allows light to shine through it we saw that same situation
with been held they wanted to build
a dome and it was felt that having that glow directly outside
of some houses on the horizon and certainly here if there's there's going to be
that type of
a glow it could be disruptive to the Park apartments What are we looking at there
in terms of the covering and its translucency for like transfer I will defer to
chase and when I write yes it's Andrea's list. Let's see
looking ahead in
a long term situation are there any plans immediately or for future development to
have. Car chargers in this area as we begin to have more electric
vehicles there are not on plan right now but again I'll defer to Jason and see if
he has plans for that in the near future OK Certainly I'd recommend if you're not
installing them today that you provide some type of an Access to be able to install
it in the future as demand comes. Let's see.
And so we have modulation of the speakers are this speakers then going to be
directed away from the apartment towards where this stands are or are we going to
see speakers broadcasting in all directions in this area
again I will have cases and she sends
a list. Did
we have any definition for the hours of the hall and I didn't see it here sometimes
it's best to fight within the permit request we did
it's it's in the staff report it and it's on the screen for you and that's fine if
if it's stated they just didn't see it and wanted to make sure that it was covered
.
Also in terms of the screening we're looking at the vegetation the landscaping
that's been put in is that showing what the coverage is going to be today or is
that the expectation of future growth when the conifers are more fully developed
will we see immediate and complete screening of the light situation. I
was over by Trader Joes and saw that the lights coming out of their parking lot are
shining up into the building and that's really not adequate in my opinion and I
want to make sure that we're dressing this
a head of time and not expecting to grow into this in fifteen or twenty years
what's your expectation the detail that was presented does allow for some growth I
want to look at the landscape in fans who want to see what it will look like when
it's at once mature and that way were not overcrowding the site and just
prematurely killed trees through overcrowding so we'll take
a little time to take full effect but again they are putting in ten foot conifers
and larger situates trees to help with that in the immediate need OK thank you very
much thank you Mr Chair. Thank you Mr Chair I apologize I had to come here
from someplace else for I apologized my fellow commissioners and I missed the
present ation so I apologize if this is something you've already answered but I'm
curious as to what goes where between the rec center and the.
The new facility and for example I'm thinking about.
That so much team sports but
a pool with an adult lab swimming open figure skating for people who aren't on
teams how does the art of the two facilities relate to each other what goes where.
Essentially on the screen right now I have the layout of the complex I look at here
again we are three sixty eight on the top of the page the rec center as it exists
today the swimming pool to the south we have the in addition to the rec center rec
center located here which is primarily locker rooms and storage facilities up above
there is
a plaza area which leads down to the bleachers at overlook the the Right now it's
shown as a hockey rink but again it's an activity area to the west of that we have
a parking lot and that's the extent of the complex that's been proposed the
swimming pool will remain unaltered So it is as it will be as it is today but
that's the extent of the improvements we have the locker rooms and closet area. The
activity area and parking lot will there be ice skating in the other activity or
you are hockey will there be an ice rink there during the winter months there will
be an ice rink there in the purpose of this facility with
a cover over it is to extend the season into the spring and started early in the
fall as long as weather is cooperation of course but it will help even with the
weather of revenue and is that exclusively for hockey or would there. Figure
skaters be able to use it I would have to defer to Jason who is the the manager of
the facility so I'll be able to talk about the activities of train at sight Thank
you Commissioner records. In the view looking
so that behind the fireplace there is the brick wall
I was just wondering what is the purpose of the brick wall there the brick wall
itself it is part of the exterior wall of the first level it extends up again to to
basically act as a
a wall for the plaza up above the bleachers I don't look at it directly behind it
any other purpose for it I guess Jason can address that and on one elevation they
propose a little signage on their identifying it as
a recreation outer occasion area but you know that's to be determined I guess as
far as what that will be on that wall. But other than that Jason can speak towards
that thank you anyone else
I have
a couple of very. Again not in any particular order. Will
there be now. Any direct access to the pool area from the new parking lot or you
know still have to go through the rec center to get to the pool I will have to
defer to Jason but that one on Jason's list the hockey rink.
You mentioned that it will have extended period of usage which means I assume that
it's going to have to have coils under it and that there will be be possible to use
it as a hockey rink for
a good six months or more answer that one and will
will the hockey. I assume the hockey boards will not be permanent so that they can
be removed to use that area of the entire area and I
also therefore assume that the that the hockey rink surface will be at the same
grade as the rest of the. Floor there.
It was mentioned to about parking and. It would seem that now
it will be possible to have three hockey games tournaments whatever going on at the
same time because we're going to have three. Rinks no and that that could attract
a considerable number of participants and sans such that. Overflow
parking would would have to come into play it would it would seem
a particular If there's
a large tournament that lasted you know like four days which they can't and I would
assume that the rec center in the Hockey Association are going to want to do that
now that they have
a better. Improved facility here. The other one might ask
Seanad Gary about. Mr Carper brought up the new old
and we had this very same issues there. Particular about lighting and noise and
perhaps other related issues and and how that. Is How's it working and been
held as
a comparison to so how these issues may play out at this site. Well
regarding the lighting issues there's
a little bit different situation out it but no because they have athletic field
lighting whereas this is going to be really underneath the structure downcast So
there is
a little bit different issues here with the lighting on this on this site and also
more typical parking lot lighting on this site. As far as the noise issues I
haven't I'm not aware of too many concerns our staff actually does attend the
meetings with the neighborhood and builds
a MARGARET And so most of the issuing is really talking about what the schedules
will be you know kind of just working with the neighborhood to give them advance
notice I'm not aware of too many concerns there were some initial at the start up
if you will some issues that we had to address but I think it's been running
relatively smoothly since then and in the questions.
I think before we open the public hearing maybe we could have Jason come up or or
go over to Gary is and could address some of these questions
that have been asked it's probably only about half the questions that will be asked
by the council.
Commiseration Sure thank you for
a kind of go through in order as they were asked if that's OK and if you have any
follow up questions to Frieda to jump in there in regards to the first question
besides other you suicides ice just give kind of you a timetable of
a year round operation we propose carrying ice from mid October through mid March
and by ice that means hockey open skate open hockey figure skating any sort of ice
time to type of activity would be welcome other groom wall etc anything from that
is is what we're kind of proposing for that matter. For April through early June
the dashboard would stay up an artificial turf would be rolled out so that means of
soccer lacrosse baseball softball football track any sort of means of meeting it
turf field during those months of the year that we normally don't have the access
to real natural turf fields because we're full of water of snow or frost etc This
becomes
a venue that the city has for those groups to be able to use could also use for
walking underneath as far as and in this in the summer time I'm ordering that time
of year just to kind of get out and about in the summer months that June through
September we remove the dashers and it just becomes
a large covered canopy concrete surface so car shows weddings but mitzvahs
vendors there's etc Just because
a large cover of any that's able to be used in rented out for whatever anything
creativity wise even think of really it's there concerts back up for particularly
stuff like that and you're back to October so it's going to be your own synopsis of
what can be used in there besides just ice and the questions in that parking as
Eventually that we book. Thank you just so I understand this better one when you
have hockey and recreational skating are they separate from one another. So that
the skaters aren't adding the HOCKEY Yeah yeah maybe two separate activities you
know up and skate would be no pucks no sticks so you're just out there leisurely
skating from
a figure skating come first but if we do have what we what we call development lies
which is for like more of your pros or your higher and skaters that tele be
exclusive to them and then you're up in hockey would be
a obvious again specifically assigned to that from an open hockey perspective but
also then for an hour rental per se like we do inside those would be wanted on the
hour like we typically do for the indoor inks and then if I could just follow up
with one more question what skating facilities in the current rec center we have to
endure sheets of ice inside the correct center refrigerated that are operated your
own and do you expect those to be used in the same way their use now do you expect
the new facility to take pressure off those two. Rings and doors I'm just wondering
what how you see this falling into place the new rink we're mostly going to
function as
a practice facility there would be as much game so it's it's not going to take any
pressure off we've
a very vibrant and healthy hockey association and along with the device schools
that's rent most if not all of our time in the wintertime so it is it's not going
to take me to pressure off but it's going to bite is an opportunity as the hockey
association was the one that came to us with this initiative saying that we
purchase it up to about three hundred dollars of ice outside of the city during
their peak season this allows them to keep all of their dollars and all their
skaters in the city of St Louis Park and that was an issue that they brought to us
saying will will contribute not get to that little bit more as far as contribution
purposes but they came to us with the driving factor of getting this facility go
and thank you. Parking as is very much we believe we
have adequate parking there are we are always those handful of answer of the year
that require the overflow parking will do our best to not schedule as many of those
events as possible again it's on us to make sure that there's not also stuff going
on in the bank or room other activities that will park such
a for this matter so but we know there are those a couple of N.C.
Or you referenced the holiday hockey term and that's obviously one of those ones
that comes up every year but we'll do our best we feel we do have enough space is
adequate This piece is going to mention before is mostly going to be practice so
for majority of the application and you see around that thirty eight stalls that
reading is going to be sufficient is what we expect do you ever have officers
directing traffic we do and we do plan and we work with our with P.D.
On that to basically have signs out with officers on hand so we're not having
people parking Firelands have to so absolutely they are aware of those special
events so that we can basically not be reactive or proactive hours of operation
right now we're not looking for any variances outside of the current noise or
lighting restrictions so that said leave ten and eleven o'clock so right now we'd
fall within that we're not looking for any other variance from that so that's we
should be fine for that. P.A.
And. The direction of that thing that seems to be on of the canopy and again will
make sure that we're very in tune with what's going on with neighbors and not
upsetting that from
a from our perspective but again it's mostly practice so there's not usually
a lot of P A announcing going on for practices if anything it might be skating or
whistle per se that's going on but again we may have those opportunities we do have
a couple special events here from an ice perspective that you know if it's
a game and stuff like that and we'll work to make sure that we're doing
notifications to neighborhoods around at this ng hey we have
a special event it's going to require some additional noise outside of the norm but
really giving you
a heads up that. The fabric as far as light penetration. I can
bring this up or. My other assistant here my boss been doing this up this is this
of us sample of what it is it's basically tough on what the Metrodome roof is made
out of there's about
a three percent light penetration going through that and the reason for as we said
that as Gary mentioned it's the idea is the intent is to to slang from the season
with the sun being the biggest deterrent from ice once you get really past February
so there's a little bit of
a light allowed through there so we won't need any lights on during the day but
obviously at night time we're certainly going to have some lights on for that
perspective lighting L.E.D.S.
Are being proposed for all the facilities far as what's included for that so we did
say that initiative for me making sure that we're we're standing and being on the
forefront. To keep bill is all certainly mention that to making sure that if we can
stop for that or include for that as far as including that oil will talk with are
going to see the means of being able to at least prepping for that but right now
there's nothing the design addressing that.
The opportunities for Operation I can imagine those but it just again it's kind of
the year round recreational facility I mean hockey being the driver from October
through March but there's
a really anything in any everything that you can think of that would need that
large cover Dr venue which currently isn't any of the city facility inventories
This provides that option for you dissing creativity. The brick wall between the
there that's on there that's actually
a brick wall basically just ending the building is certainly an opportunity to put
a logo or a title or potentially of
a future public art etc That's an opportunity for that but that's basically as Gary
mentioned blocking the top of the plaza and then it's just the end of the locker
room hall in the bottom lower level. Direct access to the to the
parking lot to the pool and fortunately it's not that's just beside the emergency
gate stays and access that there's no means of public entrance from that corner of
the of the parking lot. It is
a refrigerated slab so basically it is coiled we are replacing the refrigeration
system inside the rec center so this is the opportunity that we felt was kind of
a when when we took advantage of the refrigeration replacement to allow for the
expansion of this refrigerated slab so that allows for the operation of that
October through mid March kind of operation and presumably that new system will be
much more highly efficient yes from the fact that we have to work early on our
twenty two and that is being stopped production in two thousand and twenty so to be
ammonia. This is them in the West is the most efficient system you can have but
it's run by our twenty two So unfortunately it won't be as efficient at least one
of them the Easter ink will certainly be much more efficient but if we are required
to change so it's one of those things necessary evil but it will function out of
three fifths of potentially three if all three gets get built of some efficiencies
of having one system versus two or three The boards are not permanent they would
come out as I mentioned after that kind of that may if she's in want to turf gets
rolled up. The rink is that great with everything so this entire plaza area. That
fire firing is all at one one service one level there's no trip has or there were
say in I think that was it. Actually no. Commission
judgments What is the cost of the project top the total cost to build the project
what's the cost to be delayed
a system where we had was five point nine million case OK five point nine and then
the cost to maintain it and then to have estimated cost to maintain it and then.
What is the share of the city in tax dollars for this the performer that we put
together in proposed the council is basically
a break even and that was about forty five thousand dollars
a year in operating revenue and forty five thousand dollars
a year in operating expenses and that was
a pretty conservative approach from our opportunity to generate revenue so from an
operational cost perspective we think we're pretty close we did use information
from a performer that had done a had put together for
a similar outdoor system so it got somewhat of
a baseline from an operational perspective but from
a revenue generation perspective we were very conservative with basically putting
our numbers forward. Cost of five point nine million as I mentioned the Hockey
Association is contributing one point five million over the course of the next ten
years with
a contribution made every year from that what was your last one I'm sorry it
was all right OK thank you and if you're feeling Thank you Mr Chair and again if I
missed this in the presentation I apologize. Can we talk about winter for
a minute and and you know hockey rinks being open on both sides they can get pretty
cold what what happens in the dead of winter when it's really cold. We're proposing
operating it and kind of what we would use as more of
a litmus is what we use for outdoor rinks So if somebody would have it rented per
se and it's twenty five
a lot we're not going to make them use it or charge them if they wouldn't show up
which we would do inside if you don't show up and you want the ice you can charge
for it in this instance we basically say if it falls within our outer ring
guidelines of B.
Of being closed if you want to use it great but if you don't want to you're not
being forced to use it but it is an outdoor rink it is kind of back to the
traditional outdoor hockey you so that is
a part of that being outside of the elements hence the reason for the canopy to
keep the snow and ice off as much as we can as well as the sun but again it's an
outside there's a little bit of
a different experience from the inside that's going to our marketing it expect to
have any heaters available just for people sitting there on the bleachers who are
some way that really cold they could be there the outdoor fireplace is
a bit alternate And if that does get included That's about the only option there is
access to the upper level to get what was the old entrance to the rec center back
in the seventy's and eighty's that is still there so you can have
a means of getting in there but nothing technically from
a heater perspective outside underneath bleachers or in benches is not included at
this time and when when is the expectation that this will be complete if everything
kind of goes to plan the current timeline is this would be open in October of two
thousand and sixteen so whatever you're a little over
a year Mr Chair Mr Carver. Jason
some questions about the revenue generation roughly what percentage of the time do
you expect that this is going to be reserved for revenue generating rentals
versus available for open public skating open public use where
there's no act where he park resident can come in and use the facility without
needing to pay for it. What we have proposed the council that the priority of the
ice is actually the latter those two so the public skates the open seats the open
hockey that would take precedence over the the rentals for
a percentage basis I'd say you know whether that's three out of the five weekdays
and then for sure Saturdays and Sundays there be a time frames or times
a lot of in there for that specific operation the rest of it that would fall to
whatever's available for at the hockey association would say precedent for that
through their contribution and everything else the kind of all of them from
a rental perspective. So interprete in what I think I heard is
that if there is an opportunity to ranted on
a reserved and longer term schedule you are going to rent that hit and then
with the exception of some specific things like it like open skate time from no
none Sunday until six on Sunday and it would be non rental time that just becomes
available to the citizens is that
a fairly good interpretation correct how I would interpret or how I propose to
propose to look at it is we put
a schedule together in September for how the hall the open skates and open obvious
the public opportunities for say would be available so those would all be booked
out from basically October through the end of the season though so those would all
be known ahead of time and available for public use after that the hockey sources
should come online take their hours per se and they're thinking about one hundred
fifty hours is what they look to purchase and the rest of it will become available
to rent or if it's dead time it's open for use per se. Would there be
a differential in the rental on this assuming that it's more expensive to operate
and strength for
a period of time than it is to operate an open artificial turf type of
situation or a just
a concrete base situation so therefore let's say that for rent to love.
Us or softball or soccer might be X.
Dollars that they rental for an ice rink might be two X.
Dollars someone that type of thing or is everybody going to have to bear the same
cost free regardless of what the operating costs are there would be
a cause appropriate to whatever you mean used for that season so there be
a nice rate fee there'd be a turfy and then there'd be basically
a dry floor fees would be three type of fees would be epical depending upon the
season OK thank you they got over it very well one more question I thought I heard
you some say something about access from the parking lot and it sounded as if it
were not going to be available Could you clarify that for me please the question
was Was it will be access to the to the pool for patrons from the new parking lot
that's being proposed the answer is no the pool entrance access is still through
their front door and through the building but but they would be able to walk into
the building to get corridor access and then go through the normal pool access
correct pool Access does not change what the current operation is and there is
still access through the front door to get to this building whether it be the
second level Plaza or the first floor locker rooms and right in likewise access
from this building to get over to the front door correct so I'm OK Thank you.
So just one follow up on the field the Hockey Association is is contributing
one point five million dollars And they they therefore will get
a certain number of hours
a year usage that that they don't have to pay for. All that work they've
requested priority ice up to and they're required to basically purchase one hundred
fifty hours for the for the first ten years of operation at minus whatever the
going rate is a five dollars so see if we come up a rate which we haven't gotten
a rate approval yet of one hundred dollars an hour the hockey so seasons rate in
return for their contribution would be ninety five dollars so that's how that would
work well thank you very much Jason.
I'm sorry going back to the outdoor covered area did was this requested by the
hockey associations I mean did you consider both indoor and outdoor additions and
did the hockey players want the outdoor. If it was just the the idea of they wanted
a second or an art
a third sheet or another sheet of operational license to be able to operate it the
ice low quality of an enduring without having to put the walls up to kind of get
the best of both worlds of old old hockey picking up and going over the park type
hockey but also getting the capability of making sure that the ice quality is of
what their expectation is an indoor sheet so that in the roof also allows obviously
the winter elements is a huge deterrent for quality ice so it's kind of
a multitude of things reasonings of why that why it's covered and why it isn't
completely enclosed We thought the streetscape on this was second to none as far as
if you're driving on thirty six and he would stick
a look at this is some of the rendering show so there's
a lot of neat unique creativity that would involve that why we chose the way it
looks and as you interacted with them at the pleased with how it is that they want
indoor they happy with this let reaction they were very pleased that they were
involved in that initial stages of design to kind of help us get more of their
thoughts on paper to kind of pull this to words to be so absolutely very much
involved. OK if there are no other questions
I will open the public hearing and ask if there is anyone here who would like to
address the commission on this item the item being just the
transport. Of soil from the site in order to construct the project
seeing no I will close the public hearing. Then open it up for
a discussion of much the commissioners and.
I don't know if there is much more of
a scouse. Assert first as her chance or only chance to find out more about I think
that's correct yes oh well there was very much that they had
a. Study session but. A comment that well one I think the proposed
route and everything for the transportation of soil is fine I don't have any issues
with that and. Just knowing how.
Aggressive or successful that are. Basically travelers
visitors and travelers bureau has been the. Scene of this park I think this is
quite an amenity that will bring in quite I mean I look at it for year round use
and it's fairly unique and I think it provides
a great opportunity and I see this getting very heavy use all year round I mean.
And I think we took
a look at you know you think it's going to be bogus conservatively dollar neutral.
You know but when you look at the groups coming into St Louis Park stand seeing
this park you know at our hotels eating at our restaurants shopping I think it is
a very nice amenity to bring to say I was far and I think it's very exciting and
with that I'll make
a motion to recommend approval of the Commission to use per match subject to
conditions by staff second OK it's been moved and seconded
the staff recommendation all those in favor say aye. Opposed thank you very much
Jason Gary I will go along I have one other question
yes or traffic study done I know you're only talking about thirty six cars.
Interesting thank you Item B.
Is a public hearing
a major amendment to the Shoreham P U D to correct the
text error. Right thank you Mr Chair commissioners for your consideration is an
amendment to the shore planned unit development or P U D ordinance says in the
south east portion of the city it addresses formally address thirty nine zero
seven and thirty nine fifteen I was seven thirty nine fourteen and thirty nine
eighteen West thirty first Street and thirty thirty one cool in her state of New
the applicant is the city of St Louis Park as city staff are initiating this
amendment to correct the text error as
a reminder So here's the location this site is adjacent to France Avenue and the
missile boundary with the city of Minneapolis Francis on the left side of the
property here this view is actually looking to the south so thirty first Street is
at the top of the screen and then county road twenty five to the north of the
property are in this image at the bottom of the screen as part of the approvals of
the Shoreham planned unit development all of the existing buildings are to be
demolished and removed and then
a new development on the site the previous improvers included the rezoning two.
Planned unit development again called the Shoreham the approvals included
a five story mixed use building along county road twenty five frontage road as you
can see here and then
a three story building along West thirty first Street which was to contain only
multiple family residential units. Here's
a site plan to the north is the five storey building with medical office and office
and then residential units as well and then to the south along thirty first Street
was the three story building that was only to contain multiple family residential
units for the purposes of writing the ordinance itself and if you remember the city
recently we did its planned unit development process and so it's
a rezoning into an ordinance for
a specific project in order to make that text as clear as possible related to this
site which has some specific or unique attributes. The site was divided into two
zones to Zone A and soon be Zone A is to the North Zone B.
Is to the south and that division was really to specify where certain uses were
allowed as well as to address specific attributes of the building such as five
stories as the limit at
a long counter row twenty five or in Zone A three storeys was the maximum height
along thirty first Street this is the text in the ordinance as you can see here is
own
a that northern site listed multiple family dwellings only and the mix of uses is
listed in Zone be the minimum before you this evening is to switch the text and
because his own A on the north is actually to have that mix of use is permitted and
Zone B.
Is to be multiple family residential only so the text Amendment is so that the
ordinance reads consistently with the approved development plans which is also what
staff supported in the neighborhood before. Supported and then the Planning
Commission and to the council as well. One other line was the facade requirements
and they reference is own B.
But that's actually Zone A them
a mixed use building so that would be corrected. So the amendment before you this
evening it does not change the previously approved development plans where the
height is on the site and where the use is our what the amendment does is correct
the ordinance text so that it's consistent with the approved development plans
related to the permitted uses on this site and again to provide consistency with
those development plans and then with neighborhood intentions Planning Commission
and city council staff is recommending approval of the shore amendment to correct
an ordinance text ever and be happy to take any questions if your main
questions comments I have one is there
a barrier now at the end of France Avenue. The existing France Avenue
go to the aerial here. The barrier is a natural incline there's quite
a great change from about where this is it was an alley it was vacated as part of
this process and is about where the location for their drive access will be the
parking from that point to thirty first Street is
a great change with vegetation as you see here and that France Avenue will not
connect at Thirty first street as part of this project either so it will just dead
end into a curb and then the hillside will remain there will be
a trail connection. Multi-use for bikes and sidewalks from where the street dead
ends up to thirty first so there won't be
a barrier but there will be occur there will be
a curb and again the great changes is fairly significant. As well as trees and
other vegetation will remain Thank you everyone else
oh OK this is
a public airing open the public hearing seeing no one present to address the
commission on this issue. Closed the public hearing.
And open it up for additional discussion or emotion
we should repeal and thank you I would move the motion. You know second Thank you
all right the staff recommendation has been moved and seconded all those in favor
say aye opposed thank you very much. Is
there any other business this evening yes
if you thank you Mr Chair two point one I just wanted to follow up on Commissioner
Johnson medicines excellent point about an updated traffic study as I recall from
our last study session that is happening and I just think it is really important to
have updated information because we not only have the new center facility put the
proposed multifamily building in we've already talked about the traffic issues so I
think the better information we have the better decisions we can meet. And then the
second question I would just ask Seana do we have any minute time couple of our
bridge update system completion. I want to start with one follow up on three
if you want question is presumably what we'll find out soon I guess
the traffic study will not sort of gold this far down thirty six three would be my
guess correct. Mr Chair and the. Traffic
study that is being discussed is an extension of
a traffic study that was done first of all by the Bridgewater bank proposal by
demeaning and development at the corner of thirty six Excelsior Boulevard in
Monterey on the northeast corner and that. That study
stretched up to the intersection of thirty six than the half Street and Monterey
stood No it did not go beyond that. For the scope of this project.
If I could then address the second second point I don't know I'm not familiar right
now with the updates on the talk of our project would refer you to either the city
of St Louis parks website or the men that website which has project updates thank
you so much any communications
Yes. Just to just briefly I want to mention that our September second Planning
Commission meeting will be cancelled we do not have applications for that meeting.
And bright know the September sixteenth Planning Commission is shaping up to be
a busy night we have it it looks like at least four applications that will be on
that on that evening. Still remains to be seen these applications have just been
received and want to take
a look to make sure they're complete but right now it looks like we have four
different applications that will be on your agenda that evening OK.
Can you give us an overview of what they are just briefly as. There is.
Elmwood West is a subdivision request
a pulmonary and final plat with variances to the subdivision ordinance It's located
at ninety three zero one West Franklin Street near the West with nature center area
kind of west of West with nature center and flag Avenue in Franklin and feel like
it's
a single family house lot that is the applicant is seeking to sub divide that into
three lots. In addition there's
a conditional use permanent that we're expecting. To forty nine eleven Excelsior
Boulevard this is at the south east corner of Quentin and Excelsior Boulevard.
Assurance sure and Williams paint stores proposed in that say to tear down of the
existing building and rebuild. In addition there's
a comprehensive plan and
a resigning. Conference plan amendment map amendment and a wreath of
a property at thirty six zero one Huntington Avenue Some people have referred to it
as the waiting wheel house it's
a dark brown house on the southeast corner of Huntington and Excelsior Boulevard
the proposal there is to go from a residential zoning to
a commercial zoning in addition there's an application for Arlington roll
West this is a such as is a development on the southwest corner of Why's that
a bill of art in Texas Ave It's an apartment development total of thirty four units
that's proposed by Melrose development neighborhood meeting was held. For that
project last week. Well obviously the scheduling
neighborhood medians relayed to these other applications. Once we know that they're
complete That's the list.